iPhone SDK - why it still fails

surur · 03/09/2008, 10:48 AM

Last week's dog and pony show has given many people the impression that the iPhone will finally be freed up from Job's iron shackles in June, but over the last few days the little details which reveal the presence of the iron fist in the velvet glove have leaked out.

1) All apps will still only be released at the discretion of Apple. If Jobs does not like your app then its no go.

2) No multi-tasking for 3rd party apps. This means no good IM or push mail clients, no media players that can play in the background, no server software or services such as bluetooth A2DP software like softick, no podcast or RSS downloaders

3) Speaking of bluetooth, so far its not apparently part of the SDK. No bluetooth services if Apple does not give it to you. No bluetooth GPS.No A2DP. No bluetooth file sending or recieving. No bluetooth tethering.

4) No high bandwidth software via the GSM radio. No Skype, no SlingBox, possibly even Orb-like clients would be banned.

5) 3rd party apps can only access their own directory. This may mean they cant access your media files or play your Itunes-synced music for example.

6) No apps than launch other apps. This means no 3rd party launchers. So much for summerboard.

7) No apps with a plug-in architecture, that can run 3rd party code. This means no Java or possibly even flash, or browsers that use plug-ins like the proposed Firefox mobile.

8) Still no dock support, so no keyboards or GPS units.

I'm sure a lot more restrictions will come out over the next few weeks. In the main, it seems nothing much has changed with the release of the SDK, and if you want a powerful, customisable solution WM is still the first choice.

Surur

emooney · 03/09/2008, 11:07 AM

It truly boggles my mind why someone would get an iPhone over something like a Mogul/6800 or the like. I know many people that have one and after I show them all of the things that my phone can do, I still get the "yeah, but I have an iPhone".

Hey, to each his own. =)

GFONG · 03/09/2008, 11:08 AM

Sigh... When you are the top dog, you can command for anything. Palm is an underdog.... nothing can do. Hope that the situation will change when the new OS introduced.

KStewart · 03/09/2008, 01:59 PM

Though I may agree about the iPhone and its shortcommings, a large group of people could care less about all of the above. Two of my colleagues at work have Treos and they are holding out for the iphone for 3G and they don't seem to care what it can't do or whatever I have to say about it. Myself, I have no interest in it, but the average Joe outways the power user.

surur · 03/09/2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KStewart

Though I may agree about the iPhone and its shortcommings, a large group of people could care less about all of the above. Two of my colleagues at work have Treos and they are holding out for the iphone for 3G and they don't seem to care what it can't do or whatever I have to say about it. Myself, I have no interest in it, but the average Joe outways the power user.

Unfortunately true, but this is the challenge for the other OEM's and OS makers. They better move fast.

Surur

The Phone Diva · 03/09/2008, 02:51 PM

Too bad about 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 and 8. But that's why iPhone can never be my only phone.

As for 1, I hope Apple will be reasonable and give developers a fair look before deciding to use them or not. I don't know what will happen with this though.

mobileman · 03/09/2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emooney

It truly boggles my mind why someone would get an iPhone over something like a Mogul/6800 or the like. I know many people that have one and after I show them all of the things that my phone can do, I still get the "yeah, but I have an iPhone".

Hey, to each his own. =)

Ok, I will play along. Maybe because the Mogul is a terrible device paired with the worst service provider in the U.S. I will never use another device that requires me to flip the unit on its side and pull out the keyboard in order to type an email. Also, I disqualify any device with a start menu.

As for the iPhone SDK, I'm sure there will be a lot of issues people aren't crazy about, but I still think it turned out a lot better than most thought. Jobs said himself that he expects thousands of programs for the iPhone to be available this summer.

I also think most major developers will switch most of their resources over to the iPhone platform. The itunes distribution method gives them the availability to reach a huge audience without the worry of software piracy or having to deal with the thieves at Handango.

As for Sururs list

2) I have a feeling the AIM app demoed will be allowed to run in the background. Not sure anyone will miss third part email apps now that EAS is supported. Music can already be played in the background, and there is no way Mr. Jobs is going to allow any other music players being loaded.

5) apps can access the calendar and contact lists.

7) I will really miss the opportunity to run thousands of crappy java apps.

The Phone Diva · 03/10/2008, 12:21 AM

They will move most of their resources over from Windows Mobile(if they also develope for WM, that is)? That's like burning bridges with a major contributor towards their income. I don't think that's a good idea. Maybe a significant portion, but not MOST. There are still plenty of WM users who need updates and support.

mobileman · 03/10/2008, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phone Diva

They will move most of their resources over from Windows Mobile(if they also develope for WM, that is)? That's like burning bridges with a major contributor towards their income. I don't think that's a good idea. Maybe a significant portion, but not MOST. There are still plenty of WM users who need updates and support.

I guess we shall see. I think many developers will see a larger return of investment on iPhone development at this stage of both products maturity.

It kind of seems like MS has little interest in Windows Mobile as a viable platform going foward. In the US at least, they have lost the enterprise market to Blackberry and the consumer market to Apple. It just seems like they haven't had any response at all.

neurocutie · 03/10/2008, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surur

7) No apps with a plug-in architecture, that can run 3rd party code. This means no Java or possibly even flash, or browsers that use plug-ins like the proposed Firefox mobile.

Sun has announced that after "looking over the SDK", it will be developing a Java VM for the iPhone... so unless Sun is wrong, it must be possible... (though probably without Apple's blessing (yet)...

http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/...ne-java_1.html

Some exerpts:

The JVM is to be based on the Java Micro Edition (ME) version of Java, said Eric Klein, vice president of Java marketing at Sun, on Friday afternoon. Apple had not shown interest in enabling Java to run on the iPhone, but Sun plans to step in and do the job itself after having pondered Thursday's release of an SDK for the iPhone by Apple.

"Now, the iPhone is open" as a target platform, Klein said. The free JVM would be made available via Apple's AppStore marketplace for third-party applications.

"We're going to make sure that the JVM offers the Java applications as much access to the native functionality of the iPhone as possible," he said.

Besides Java games, developers could bring over enterprise applications such as ERP or CRM to the iPhone, said Klein. Apple's iTouch, which features iPhone capabilities minus telephony, also will be supported by the JVM.

"Once our JVM is on the phone, we anticipate that a large number of Java applications would run on the phone," Klein said.

"We're going to work to make sure that the JVM offers the Java applications as much access to the native functionality of the iPhone as possible," said Klein.

By bringing the JVM to the iPhone, Java capabilities in area such as SSL security could be brought to Apple's platform, said analyst Chris Silva of Forrester Research.

"I think going forward, with the SDK, it takes out of Apple's control which applications are 'right' for the iPhone," Silva said.

surur · 03/10/2008, 04:37 AM

I know about the Sun Java announcement, but it seems rather unlikely that it will be ALLOWED on the iPhone, does it not, after Steve Jobs slagged it off more than a year ago.

Surur

surur · 03/10/2008, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobileman

As for Sururs list

2) I have a feeling the AIM app demoed will be allowed to run in the background. Not sure anyone will miss third part email apps now that EAS is supported. Music can already be played in the background, and there is no way Mr. Jobs is going to allow any other music players being loaded.

5) apps can access the calendar and contact lists.

7) I will really miss the opportunity to run thousands of crappy java apps.

That sure is a rich development environment, isnt it...

I think it actually turned it every much as bad as it was expected to have been, but Job's showmanship has fooled some people again.

Surur

The Phone Diva · 03/10/2008, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobileman

I guess we shall see. I think many developers will see a larger return of investment on iPhone development at this stage of both products maturity.

It kind of seems like MS has little interest in Windows Mobile as a viable platform going foward. In the US at least, they have lost the enterprise market to Blackberry and the consumer market to Apple. It just seems like they haven't had any response at all.

Xperia 1 with a quad-band 3G radio, the first ever. T-Mobile Dash/Shadow/Wing. AT&T 8525 and 8925. Blackjack 1 and 2. Motorola Q, all versions. Even the Treo 700w/wx and 750. Mogul. SMT5800 and XV6800. Etc. etc. etc.

Yeah WM does really bad in the US. So much so that they keep releasing the OS on new phones for all the carriers. And they are testing WM 6.1 and will eventually be doing WM7. That makes a lot of sense.

The Phone Diva · 03/10/2008, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surur

I know about the Sun Java announcement, but it seems rather unlikely that it will be ALLOWED on the iPhone, does it not, after Steve Jobs slagged it off more than a year ago.

Surur

I really hope someone convinces him to change his mind.

jhoff80 · 03/10/2008, 11:01 AM

For Java, isn't it much more likely that what they'll release is a runtime app as opposed to a browser plugin, much like what we have on the (Garnet) Treos now?

cmaier · 03/10/2008, 11:11 AM

2) background apps actually work. HIG doesn't permit them. The question is whether (1) means that HIG-violations don't get permitted. That will be the big question with respect to Java as well.

Given that AIM was up on the stage, I'd be shocked if there are not at least some exceptions to the no-background HIG rule. And it's always possible that the treat the HIG as guidelines but not rules.

5) there appears to be a mechanism to allow inter-process communications through a url mechanism. (To be honest, I haven't looked at this in much detail yet). The prohibition on accessing data in other directories seems to be a technical one that prohibits only direct file access, but permits a message-passing mechanism where programs can cooperatively provide each other with their data.

mobileman · 03/10/2008, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surur

That sure is a rich development environment, isnt it...

I think it actually turned it every much as bad as it was expected to have been, but Job's showmanship has fooled some people again.

Surur

No offense Surur, but I take the words of major developers like the creator of doom, EA, Sega, American Online, Epocrates, and even current Windows Mobile developers (the guy that does Pocket Informant) who seemed very happy about the SDK.

How much development experience do you have?

mobileman · 03/10/2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surur

I know about the Sun Java announcement, but it seems rather unlikely that it will be ALLOWED on the iPhone, does it not, after Steve Jobs slagged it off more than a year ago.

Surur

Why should anybody care? All those years I used Windows Mobile I cant honestly remember ever finding one worthwhile java app.

Sun's lawyers might have something to say though about Apple not allowing it to run.

mobileman · 03/10/2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phone Diva

Xperia 1 with a quad-band 3G radio, the first ever. T-Mobile Dash/Shadow/Wing. AT&T 8525 and 8925. Blackjack 1 and 2. Motorola Q, all versions. Even the Treo 700w/wx and 750. Mogul. SMT5800 and XV6800. Etc. etc. etc.

Yeah WM does really bad in the US. So much so that they keep releasing the OS on new phones for all the carriers. And they are testing WM 6.1 and will eventually be doing WM7. That makes a lot of sense.

Did I say WM "does really bad", or did I say its getting beat by both Blackberry and Apple in the US. If all you care about is little OS updates to an aging OS, than WM is a great choice (I guess).

Xperia looks nice, cant wait to see how big of a loan I will need to take to buy one.

surur · 03/10/2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhoff80

For Java, isn't it much more likely that what they'll release is a runtime app as opposed to a browser plugin, much like what we have on the (Garnet) Treos now?

Code that run other code are not allowed.

Quote:

An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise.

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/03/08/...ava-emulators/

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmaier

2) background apps actually work. HIG doesn't permit them. The question is whether (1) means that HIG-violations don't get permitted. That will be the big question with respect to Java as well.

Given that AIM was up on the stage, I'd be shocked if there are not at least some exceptions to the no-background HIG rule. And it's always possible that the treat the HIG as guidelines but not rules.

Quote:

Only one iPhone application can run at a time, and third-party applications never run in the background

Quote:

Applications must comply with the Human Interface Guidelines and other Documentation provided by Apple.

Not much wriggle room there, is there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobileman

No offense Surur, but I take the words of major developers like the creator of doom, EA, Sega, American Online, Epocrates, and even current Windows Mobile developers (the guy that does Pocket Informant) who seemed very happy about the SDK.

How much development experience do you have?

Knowing some of my favourite apps are prohibited tells me more than enough, thank you. You are apologizing for Apple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobileman

Why should anybody care? All those years I used Windows Mobile I cant honestly remember ever finding one worthwhile java app.

One little gem called Opera Mini comes to mind. Of course on an iPhone this may not be much missed, except for the dog-slow EDGE connection being used to download full web pages of course.

I'm sure UK punters, who would like the use the JAVA app which let them set their PVR via their phone miss the capability also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobileman

Sun's lawyers might have something to say though about Apple not allowing it to run.

Thats a hilarious statement. You cant really believe it, do you?

Surur