GMM 5.0 Holding Up WM6 Upgrades for ATT Devices

WDW · 08/30/2007, 05:09 PM

A mention today in the 750 forum makes the third instance I have heard that the ATT WM6 upgrades are being held up by the delays of GMM 5.0. Sources say that the ROM has been ready for weeks now (as witnessed by the dozens of successful upgrades with the "leaked" ATT ROM at places like XDA). However, since the GetGood functionality is part of ATT's base ROM, and since GMM 4.x versions are supposedly incompatible with WM6, the whole shooting match is waiting on GMM 5.0 to be complete. Work on 5.0 has been going on since late 2006. But development was delayed by a rash of bugs in latter 4.x versions released in Feb and March 2007 (button hijacking, password screen, auto starting, device lockups and the infamous Daylight Savings Time release). This diverted 5.0 resources to bug fixes on version 4.x releases and delayed the beta testing of 5.0. This was noted by our resident guru GoodGuy here on TC on 4/25 when he remarked, "Actually, the bugfix release has taken a bit higher priority now to the point it has pushed back the beta release of 5.0."

So many of you you have noted that the WM6 leaked ROM seems flawless and wonder what the hold up is for the final release. Now you know.

Dsol · 08/31/2007, 12:24 AM

I think you are dead on the money. I have a leaked version of WM6 that is working near flawlessly in all respects that I can tell with the exception of with GMM 4.9xx.

Although I actually installed the GMM software on my 750 by using the "Get Good" icon on my newly installed software it does have a massive bug which I have described in an earlier post on this message board. In short the auto text does not work and I can type 10 to 15 letters before they start showing up on the screen. This is completely isolated to GMM so I know that it is not a WM6 issue. All other apps work perfectly and all other components of GMM work fine too, such as contact lookup, calendar, etc.

I realize my only choice is to re-load WM5 but I don't want to go "back in time" as everything else about WM6 is so much better, such as HSDPA and far fewer dropped calls in my location.

AT&T has a GMM data plan that pays a portion of your data fee to GMM so there is clearly cross marketing here and no way AT&T could possibly allow WM6 to roll out with a non-working corporate email solution (GMM) on their device that is generally touted as the premier business pda/phone. I can guarantee you that WM6 will be released only after GMM gets their act together and releases 5.0. GMM even goes so far as to promote 5.0 on their website and posted a press release in this section of the board on June 25th touting the new 5.0--yet all they will say now is "they are still targeting end of September for release". I am willing to bet that the Vodaphone WM6 version released in Europe and the Australian version that we have all read about do no have the "Get Good" software pre-loaded on their WM6 ROMs. This whole thing is kind of funny when you consider that Palm and Good Mobile Messaging (which is owned by Motorola) are based in the U.S, yet they will be 4-6 weeks behind the rest of the world in releasing this software.

So I hope all of you out there that are frustrated because when you bought your 750 and read a statement that said something to the effect of "...HSDPA compatible next year" are really ticked off that this alliance between GMM and AT&T is the only reason you are waiting for this much needed upgrade. AT&T is also holding up WM6 on the Blackjack and I believe another device for the same reason I am certain.

Conekkted said it right weeks ago when he/she suggested that Good leak its code in advance of a release so that they could get some debugging help. I am afraid GMM is a very small incapable division of Motorola that is in way over its head!

Can you tell I am ticked?

GoodGuy · 08/31/2007, 09:28 AM

I think you are giving Good way too much credit for holding up WM6 on devices. Trust me, there are many more 750's out there that are not running GMM than those that are. WM6 does have an email solution according to folks, Exchang ActiveSync, so your theory of not having an email solution doesn't make sense.

conekkted · 08/31/2007, 09:39 AM

It is true that GMM is on a minority of ATT devices comparatively. But WDW is correct that there is no way ATT will hand out WM6 when one of the built in icons, GetGood, downloads an application with possibly more bugs for Good and ATT to resolve. Neither company wants to field thousands of phone calls about why this doesn't work. ATT sells the GMM service to thousands of its customers. And the stability of GMM already has an abysmal track record. So, the fact that more ATT customers won't use GMM than will use it is of no consequence. The fact is that thousands WILL use it. And that is too many customers to support when they try and run GMM 4.x. Plus, ATT/Palm does not want to turn around a month or two later and have to re-release a specific fix for GMM. Releasing a ROM fix is much more complex than releasing an application fix. Believe me, ATT is only going to QA one ROM release. So I too believe that we will see a WM6 upgrade only once GMM 5.0 is ready to roll out officially. So get moving Good, we are all watching you.

Dsol · 08/31/2007, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodGuy

I think you are giving Good way too much credit for holding up WM6 on devices. Trust me, there are many more 750's out there that are not running GMM than those that are. WM6 does have an email solution according to folks, Exchang ActiveSync, so your theory of not having an email solution doesn't make sense.

GoodGuy, you are absolutely correct that there are far many more 750's not running GMM than there are and that WM6 DOES HAVE AN EMAIL solution that is not buggy and working which is Exchange (I never meant to imply otherwise so sorry if my post was unclear), but my point is maybe more clearly stated by Conneketed. How could AT&T release a ROM upgrade that has a non functioning component? As of today the leaked ROM includes a "Get Good" icon that allows any user of the device to tap the screen and begin a download of GMM for WM6 (oddly enough when you begin the download it does not tell you it is not WM6 compatible, it actually infers that it is because it indicates you are downloading a GMM for WM6--the only reason I know it is incompatible is because you say as much).

I don't follow your logic because how does AT&T know which customers are going to try and download GMM, it could be any one of their customers and the few that try will have a buggy non-supported version of GMM and things will get very bad.

Don't forget that GMM users are typically corporate users with unlimited data plans and very likely extremely high voice plans too--like $150/month plans all in. Are these the people that AT&T want calling them to ask why the included software on their new upgraded 750 links to a non-working email solution?

If, as you say our "theory does not make sense" then are you telling me that AT&T will be releasing the upgrade prior to you releasing 5.0--I think we both know that is not the case. If they were going to release WM6 prior to GMM's release of 5.0 then the ROM would have to have the "Get Good" icon removed and something tells me that will not happen.....

Lastly, I like the way you say that WM6 does have an email solution "according to folks" (Outlook via Exchange/Active sync with direct push technology). Does this imply that you think they don't and only some "folks" think they do? Nice dig by the way.

jrinehart · 08/31/2007, 11:26 AM

WM6.0 and Exchange 2007 front end is pretty slick, don't let anyone tell you different. The control over devices gets even closer to that of a GMC.

However, it doesn't compare to GMM. It doesn't notify you of messages sent to a subfolder and you can sync items not under your inbox (plus you can run SQL on WM6.0 devices). That is, unless you are a programmer and write a simple vb script for the exchange box that automatically moves inbox items to a folder after they are read.

PapaJDub · 08/31/2007, 07:03 PM

I am running GMM on WM6 (leaked XDA copy) on my 750 and it performs flawlessly as far as I can tell!!!

Here's my setup if it helps anyone:

Good Version: Good Mobile Messaging V4.9.3.21_EN

OS Version: Windows Mobile 6 Professional, CE OS 5.2.1239 (Build 17746.0.2.4)

Software Version: TREO750-1.13-CNG

Hardware Version: A

Firmware Version: 1.47.25.00

GoodGuy · 09/01/2007, 08:18 AM

The GetGood Icon was strictly a link to a website. It is not an application. It is a bookmark. If you don't have a GMM server, it won't work anyway. Has always been that way. So, yes, I am saying that the upgrade could absolutely be released without GMM 5 being released. Why have WM6 devices been released by carriers when GMM is not officially supported on these devices? To imply that one application, that is used by a fraction of the users, is holding up the release of an OS is ridiculous.

As for EAS, yes, I think it is an inferior solution compared to GMM for many different reasons. With E2007 and WM6, MSFT has made great strides by adding features and functionality that GMM has had for years. That being said, I don't know of any large (over 500 users) enterprises that are dropping everything to 1) upgrade to Exchange 2007 and 2) that are doing a corporate wide roll out of EAS.

Dsol · 09/01/2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodGuy

The GetGood Icon was strictly a link to a website. It is not an application. It is a bookmark. If you don't have a GMM server, it won't work anyway. Has always been that way. So, yes, I am saying that the upgrade could absolutely be released without GMM 5 being released. Why have WM6 devices been released by carriers when GMM is not officially supported on these devices? To imply that one application, that is used by a fraction of the users, is holding up the release of an OS is ridiculous.

I realize it is a link, but it is link that would be non-functioning that is already included in what everyone acknowledges will be the final AT&T WM6 ROM. So you are suggesting that WM6 will be released with a link to a website that won't work? So when someone clicks on that link they will get a message from GMM that says "sorry check back later--we do not have software that is compatible with the OS you just installed even though this link is included. And if you want to install this software anyway because you want to give it a try and the download implies it is WM6 compatible because before the download we ask would you like to install GMM for PPC WM6 don't be confused and we will not be able to offer you any support."

And the reason that WM6 has been released by those other carriers is because those carriers don't cross sell GMM and therefore do not include the "Get Good" icon their ROM.

AT&T, however is "in bed" with you guys and needs to wait for you to finally release 5.0. Even if they were to release WM6 without the link as you say they could easily do--clearly that could technically happen as it is only a link--AT&T would also have to issue a warning to the thousands of GMM users out there that said "For those of you using the GMM application DO NOT UPGRADE TO WM6--if you do your email solution will no longer be supported by GMM. GMM has told us they have a target date of late September or maybe October to release their compatible software and then you can upgrade to WM6.

Come on GoodGuy, do you really think AT&T is going to go this route. Be honest, yes we all know they could but is that really likely? Remember, as I stated before GMM are coporate users with heavy voice and data usage with annual wireless bills in the $1,200 to $1,800 range with corporate AT&T accounts and GMM specifice data plans which pay a portion of the data fee to GMM. Take a practical look at this, given that Europe and Australia have released WM6 on GSM/UMTS networks one can assume the OS works. I am betting the "Get Good" icon will be there when WM6 is released which means GMM 5.0 will be released prior to WM6.

Lastly, I will be the first to come back here and correct myself and apologize to you if WM6 is released before GMM is able to get the bugs out of 5.0 and release it.

Dsol · 09/01/2007, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaJDub

I am running GMM on WM6 (leaked XDA copy) on my 750 and it performs flawlessly as far as I can tell!!!

Here's my setup if it helps anyone:

Good Version: Good Mobile Messaging V4.9.3.21_EN

OS Version: Windows Mobile 6 Professional, CE OS 5.2.1239 (Build 17746.0.2.4)

Software Version: TREO750-1.13-CNG

Hardware Version: A

Firmware Version: 1.47.25.00

PapaJDub, My setup is identical to you in all respects but have varying delays when composing emails from somewhat to fairly lengthy. I trust you are not having any of these delays? Also, are the suggested words from the autotext feature actually working within GMM? In my case the suggested words always change each time I type a letter as if the letter I just typed is the first letter of a word. As soon as I type a second letter it acts as if I started to type a new word. I have reprovisioned GMM which has not helped. Again--only happens when composing emails, not in the contact lookup, calendar, etc.

Thanks-

jrinehart · 09/02/2007, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodGuy

As for EAS, yes, I think it is an inferior solution compared to GMM for many different reasons. With E2007 and WM6, MSFT has made great strides by adding features and functionality that GMM has had for years. That being said, I don't know of any large (over 500 users) enterprises that are dropping everything to 1) upgrade to Exchange 2007 and 2) that are doing a corporate wide roll out of EAS.

Unfortunately, you have now.

Falling stock prices, increasing desire for new technology company wide results in cutting every penny. Even if that means reducing functionality.

PapaJDub · 09/02/2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dsol

PapaJDub, My setup is identical to you in all respects but have varying delays when composing emails from somewhat to fairly lengthy. I trust you are not having any of these delays? Also, are the suggested words from the autotext feature actually working within GMM? In my case the suggested words always change each time I type a letter as if the letter I just typed is the first letter of a word. As soon as I type a second letter it acts as if I started to type a new word. I have reprovisioned GMM which has not helped. Again--only happens when composing emails, not in the contact lookup, calendar, etc.

Thanks-

DSOL, have you tried turning off the WM6 word completion and leaving the good word completion on? Thats what my configuration is now, not sure if it could be conflicting.

cmajewsk · 09/02/2007, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrinehart

Unfortunately, you have now.

Falling stock prices, increasing desire for new technology company wide results in cutting every penny. Even if that means reducing functionality.

Very true - why pay a licensing fee to Good when you already have a solution in place with Exchange? With E2K3 in place, that's what were doing.

GoodGuy · 09/03/2007, 10:06 AM

I have said before, if you are looking for basic email functionality and no fleet or device management, EAS is fine.

CrunchDude · 09/06/2007, 05:52 AM

So what is it now? End of this month???

Also, what about this supposed "Treo 750 Refresh", which, if I'm not mistaken, will support a higher resolution screen.

And is it feasible to believe that it is possible (recommended?) to actually transfer a screen from a 320x320 Treo to the 750 and get the higher resolution when WM6 is finally released?

jrinehart · 09/06/2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodGuy

I have said before, if you are looking for basic email functionality and no fleet or device management, EAS is fine.

I'm not sure what you mean by "no fleet or device management".

The mobile admin program on E2k3 lets me do device management and the admin pack for E2k7 allows me to do everything that GMC does. It doesn't provide detailed information like ROM versions and such but it does allow remote access to WM6 devices, remote wipes, remote locks, enterprise wide password protection, and certificate deployment to name a few. Not to mention that you can send file attachments from the mobile device, enhance calendar functionality, meeting setups/requests, support for flags/followups (WM6 devices).

GoodGuy, don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting Good Messaging. I'm just saying that EAS isn't what it used to be and in my mind giving Good a strong run for it's money when you factor in the cost. Now, if Good left prices where they are and added in VoIP and File Sync (Nokia's Intellisync) then you're talkin.

$15 data plan for EAS/month

$40 data plan for Good/month + one time license fees

Multiply that by thousands of users. You can understand.

GoodGuy · 09/06/2007, 12:33 PM

I understand the enhancements made with WM6 and E2007. However, I am referring to data provided in the GMC such as coverage history, data usage, handheld info, etc. Also, the ability to push 3rd party apps. Meeting invites and flags have been in GMM for years. With 5.0, you will also be able to see free/busy with calendar invites, so if you invite person A and person B to a meeting at 2:00 PM, if person A is busy at that time, it will tell you and then recommend a time when all invitees are available. As well as attachment support, enhanced security (GMD) in 5.0. Also, all updates to the GMM client can be pushed to the device, access to all sub-folders, and all of these features are available in Palm OS, WM5 and WM6 (with 5.0).

From a cost perspective, based on your example, I am assuming you are using Sprint. With AT&T and and VZW, it is $5 more per month, retail. I have seen the carriers give away the CAL's in larger deployments as well as reduce the MRC.

Dsol · 09/08/2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaJDub

DSOL, have you tried turning off the WM6 word completion and leaving the good word completion on? Thats what my configuration is now, not sure if it could be conflicting.

This did the trick. I was never able to find out how to turn off word completion in GMM (I am guessing you can't because nobody has suggested a way and I have been through all the preferences in GMM). Turning of completion in WM was easy and this works. When 5.0 comes out I will install and try turning it back on again. Not a bad work around for now.

Thanks PapaJDub.

efudd · 10/01/2007, 02:13 PM

curious- since GMM 5 came out today- did the att update show up?