SafeGuard Discussions - Page 5

jeffgibson · 04/02/2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shsmith

A couple of suggestions:

1) I would prefer if the "running man" icon only show for apps that are actually running at this moment (i.e. at least one notification stop sign is "green&quot

. As it is, that icon could mean the app once used a notification in the past, even though none of it's notifications are active right now. Maybe like you did with the "stop light" icons have an indicator of past vs currently running apps.

I understand what you are asking but I don't think it would be the right thing to do to not show a running man at all. How about a Green Running man if any notificaiton ius active and a Yellow running man if no notificaiton is active?

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2) I have several apps that are hidden or are really pref panels, and most of these don't show up in SG. Please monitor these, if possible.

I will look into these.

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3) When you have a reset without a crash log entry, it would still be nice to click on the reset entry and see what tasks were possibly active at the time of the reset, just like in the crash log screen. Lots of resets don't make a crash log entry, at least not on my Treo 680.

This is not really possible. If there were notifications active, the crash would have been logged as a crash. So I don't know how to preset any more information here than the name of the foreground application.

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Also I recently ran into a particular app that causes resets, but that was not flagged as dangerous by SG. This was netselect from 79bmedia.com. If I lock this app with Resco Locker, the resets stop, but in SG all the "stop signs" for notifications are green.

Well it sounds like the problem with this application is not related to unprotected notification registrations. That is what the RED running man indicates. Does this application run in the background? Does it crash when running in the background or only when you run it in the foreground?

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Another thing I noticed is that while SG is active, other apps that list notifications run really slow. For instance, the notifications section in Resco Explorer takes so long to load I thought maybe my 680 had crashed. The same goes for Resco Locker--exremely slow loading now. My guess is these both query notification lists in a way that SG is intercepting.

This is known behavior for SafeGuard and indicates that you must have one or more applications that use the 'hede' event notification. When you have the Palm Crash Monitor activated, SafeGuard will monitor all notifications used by applications. The 'hede' notification dramatically effects performance and when SafeGuard monitors this notificaiton, your device will slow down. This is why the initial installation wizard provides a disclaimer that this crash monitor may effect your device's performance. To avoid the slowdown, you can either eliminate the 'hede' applications from your device, or you can disable the Palm Crash Monitor until you start seeing device stability issues. At that time, you can re-enable the Palm Crash Monitor to catch the reason for the crashes.

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Overall I would say SG is a great addition to palmos. I registered it right away after seeing it's potential.

That is terrific and much appreciated!!!!

Jeff

jeffgibson · 04/07/2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboTiger

I agree,
I have 3 apps hidden on the pref panel
RNS: TNT
RNS: TST
IBM Java VM

I will be releasing version 2.08 of SafeGuard this week that provides support for panel applications and also will provide a performance screen that displays the overall performance for each Palm Event Notification. Will be the first application that will measure and report device performance in realtime!

Jeff

TurboTiger · 04/07/2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgibson

I will be releasing version 2.08 of SafeGuard this week that provides support for panel applications and also will provide a performance screen that displays the overall performance for each Palm Event Notification. Will be the first application that will measure and report device performance in realtime!

Jeff

Great news Jeff,

Tks

dr.who · 04/08/2008, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgibson

Sorry, I just got back from a week long vacation and I have not gone through email yet. If you don't see something from me today, please resend the email.

BTW: 2.07 should have solved the SD Card issue.

Jeff

Hi Jeff
I've sent you another email.

jeffgibson · 04/08/2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.who

Hi Jeff
I've sent you another email.

I got your email and sent you one back asking for more information. Did you get it?

Jeff

Treo Musketeers · 04/08/2008, 05:25 PM

Jeff,

Just an FYI, even with the "Keep SD Card Mounted" option checked, I still lost my card to the invisibility bug. : ( Might be the card, but I have no way to check without purchasing an SDHC reader.

Stu

dr.who · 04/09/2008, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgibson

I got your email and sent you one back asking for more information. Did you get it?

Jeff

Hi Jeff

No. It didn't arrive. Strange: I don't have any spam filters.

shsmith · 04/09/2008, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgibson

I understand what you are asking but I don't think it would be the right thing to do to not show a running man at all. How about a Green Running man if any notificaiton ius active and a Yellow running man if no notificaiton is active?

Hi Jeff. My point is that many apps hook a notification while they are running in the foreground, but unhook it on exit, so they can't be active in the background. Those shouldn't show up with exactly the same icon as apps that stay in the background. Apps that hook only while running might crash if they are flushed (i.e. with off-flush) but otherwise won't crash different apps. A different color to indicate this would be helpful. Or maybe a second icon--like a lightning bolt--to indicate those apps that have active events right now.

There seems to be some creeping corruption in the database tracking application notifications, because after a few days every single app had a "running" icon, even those that don't hook any notifications. I deleted the SG dbcache DB and reset to clear this out. This happened with 2.07.

shsmith · 04/09/2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgibson

Well it sounds like the problem with this application is not related to unprotected notification registrations. That is what the RED running man indicates. Does this application run in the background? Does it crash when running in the background or only when you run it in the foreground?

This is a app that watches for a special key combination and pops up a network selection/connect/disconnect dialog, so yes, it is in the background all the time. The crash seems to happen when the app is flushed from dbcache while in a different app. For instance, when starting palminternals I get a reset if the app is not locked. Anyway, I decided to remove that app as it is unsupported by the author and seems a bit buggy. It just seemed odd that SG didn't flag it.

shsmith · 04/09/2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgibson

To avoid the slowdown, you can either eliminate the 'hede' applications from your device, or you can disable the Palm Crash Monitor until you start seeing device stability issues. At that time, you can re-enable the Palm Crash Monitor to catch the reason for the crashes.

My point was that my treo is running fast and does not have anything slowing it down. The only thing that is slow is opening Resco Lock or the Notifications section in Resco Explorer. Both of these display a list of which apps get notifications. With SG enabled, those both take more than a minute to open, whereas with SG disabled they open in just a couple of seconds. The odd thing is that palminternals does a similar thing, but it is not slowed at all by SG.

Anyway, I am looking forward to your next version. Thanks!

prubin · 04/10/2008, 10:08 AM

Safeguard is useful for information, but it seems to create lags so I generally do not run it. Question: If I use Safeguard to quarantine a program and then turn of Safeguard, is the program still non-functional?

Treo Musketeers · 04/10/2008, 11:46 AM

Prubin,

Once your device is stable, you can turn off the Crash Monitoring function of SafeGuard and your lag will disappear. Leave the rest of SafeGuard running and you shouldn't have any problem. To answer your other question though, I beleive once you quarantine a program it is quarantined until you either activate it or delete it.

Stu

jeffgibson · 04/10/2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shsmith

Hi Jeff. My point is that many apps hook a notification while they are running in the foreground, but unhook it on exit, so they can't be active in the background. Those shouldn't show up with exactly the same icon as apps that stay in the background. Apps that hook only while running might crash if they are flushed (i.e. with off-flush) but otherwise won't crash different apps. A different color to indicate this would be helpful. Or maybe a second icon--like a lightning bolt--to indicate those apps that have active events right now.

There seems to be some creeping corruption in the database tracking application notifications, because after a few days every single app had a "running" icon, even those that don't hook any notifications. I deleted the SG dbcache DB and reset to clear this out. This happened with 2.07.

Version 2.08 will have a GREEN running man to indicate active Notificaitons and YELLOW running men for apps that are not actively using background processing!

As far as all apps having running men, I just found that RescoLocker is causing this problem. It turns out that RescoLocker will actually register and unregister for 13 notifications for ALL applications when it scans for applications when you run RescoLocker.

Version 2.08 will provide a "patch" for the RescoLocker behavior but SafeGuard is actually doing what it is supposed to be doing and for the life of me, I can't understand why RescoLocker is doing what it is doing!

Jeff

jeffgibson · 04/10/2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shsmith

This is a app that watches for a special key combination and pops up a network selection/connect/disconnect dialog, so yes, it is in the background all the time. The crash seems to happen when the app is flushed from dbcache while in a different app. For instance, when starting palminternals I get a reset if the app is not locked. Anyway, I decided to remove that app as it is unsupported by the author and seems a bit buggy. It just seemed odd that SG didn't flag it.

Can you send me the name of this application so I can test with it locally?

jeffgibson · 04/10/2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shsmith

My point was that my treo is running fast and does not have anything slowing it down. The only thing that is slow is opening Resco Lock or the Notifications section in Resco Explorer. Both of these display a list of which apps get notifications. With SG enabled, those both take more than a minute to open, whereas with SG disabled they open in just a couple of seconds. The odd thing is that palminternals does a similar thing, but it is not slowed at all by SG.

Anyway, I am looking forward to your next version. Thanks!

Read my post above. This behavior is because of the way RescoLocker is working! RescoLocker is actually registering and unregistering 13 different background notifications for EVERY application on your device!!! Meaning it is using the creator ID of each application and registering and unregistering for (hots, sync, slpq, slp!, worm, lazy, cbar, dbs-, -pdb, hpps, hvch, hede, hidl) notifications! SafeGuard will log and track each of these notification actions. This is what is causing the delay.

Jeff

jeffgibson · 04/10/2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Treo Musketeers

Prubin,

Once your device is stable, you can turn off the Crash Monitoring function of SafeGuard and your lag will disappear. Leave the rest of SafeGuard running and you shouldn't have any problem. To answer your other question though, I beleive once you quarantine a program it is quarantined until you either activate it or delete it.

Stu

This is exactly correct! This lag is also a good time to evaluate if you really need the HEDE applications that you have on your device. I say this because the lag you are seeing is actually a result of running the applications that are using the HEDE event notification.

Jeff

shsmith · 04/10/2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgibson

Version 2.08 will have a GREEN running man to indicate active Notificaitons and YELLOW running men for apps that are not actively using background processing!

Perfect. Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgibson

As far as all apps having running men, I just found that RescoLocker is causing this problem. It turns out that RescoLocker will actually register and unregister for 13 notifications for ALL applications when it scans for applications when you run RescoLocker.

That explains a lot. My guess is that resco is using that method to find out the previous hook into each notification, rather than being resident and spying on the notifications originally being requested like SG does. You might want to write to the guys at resco and advise them on a better way to accomplish that. Although I haven't seen this, I suspect that Resco backup may also have the same problem when it has it's "lock risky apps" option turned on.

shsmith · 04/10/2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgibson

Can you send me the name of this application so I can test with it locally?

You can find it here: http://netselect.79bmedia.com/

jeffgibson · 04/10/2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shsmith

Perfect. Thank you.

You are very welcome!

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You might want to write to the guys at resco and advise them on a better way to accomplish that.

I am not real anxious to let potential competitors know my methods for gathering this information.

Jeff

STBXXL · 04/10/2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffgibson

This is exactly correct! This lag is also a good time to evaluate if you really need the HEDE applications that you have on your device. I say this because the lag you are seeing is actually a result of running the applications that are using the HEDE event notification.

Jeff

Unfortunately, two of Hobbyist's software titles I use, namely Butler and Power Hero use HEDE notifications. Both are very useful tools. So I would find it very hard to not having them installed on my Treo.

Cheers.