zelgo

Yesterday's US elections showed that Republicans who ran as moderates won (VA and NJ Govs) while the extreme right wing lost (NY-23, losing of anti-tax referenda, anti-gay marriage/civil union referenda in Maine and WA). Independent voters made the difference, and Independents hate extremes on either side.

While everyone is wondering how the Democrats will learn from this to rebound next year, I think it says more about which direction the Republican Party will have to take.

Micael

That's just exactly what they want you to think! Muh-hahahahahaaaa!

(Go ahead Dems, please stay on the tax and spend path you're on)

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KAM1138

Hello Everyone,

I guess that's what you get when you've got a "Republican" endorsing the Democrat.

I expected that NY-23 would go to Hoffman, but Corzine would win.

All three of these races is a turn around by percentages from last year (judging by Obama votes), but this is a small sample size comparatively (less turnout), so I'm not sure one can draw too strong of a conclusion from that.

It certainly isn't a "Win" for conservatives in NY-23. Of course, it sure as heck isn't a win for Democrats or liberals in NJ or VA either. Mixed bag, but general advantage to Republicans.


KAM

KAM1138

Hello Again,

Isn't it interesting that Leftists are always telling Conservatives what they need to do in order to win--that they should be "moderate" (in other words, agree with leftists), but think its completely ok to run to their extreme left and pander to the kooks who populate their little blogs and pressure groups?

Actually, there is a kernal of honesty in there--that is that Democrats win by pretending to be moderates (like President Obama did), while having no such intent to govern that way. So, of course they would believe that same deception would work for Republicans, but this ignores reality.

More often than not (although apparently not in NY-23), Republican voters reject (by staying home) wishy-washy candidates like McCain, and they sure as heck don't like Democrat-lite which is why they said "screw you" to Congressional Republicans in 06 who had decided they liked to spend like Democrats (which is of course hilarious now, seeing exactly how much "better" democrats are at wasting tax payer money when they are given free reign). Suffice it to say, Republicans need be much more concerned with Conservatives than they do "moderates", because "moderates" will go one way or the other, and sometimes they will be with you and sometimes against, but if you reject your core voters values and principles...you lose (almost) every time.

No, if you are Republican conservative--run as one and you will win just fine. Don't pander to "moderates" and pretend to be something you aren't--that's what works for Democrats, not Republicans.

And generally...don't believe those who would love to see ALL of you defeated, when they claim to give you "helpful" advice.

KAM

Bujin

Do that, and you'll generally get 30% of the vote - if you sacrifice numbers for the sake of party purity, you'll generally be unelectable everywhere but the south. There are more Independents than either Dems or Repubs.

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KAM1138

Your 30% might be correct, but you assume that independents simply do not vote for conservatives or conservatives issues, and they do...sometimes. It seems that you folks on the left are under the mistaken assumption that the left now owns "moderates" which isn't true. They sure as heck owned enough of them in the 2008 Presidential Election, but that has already shifted back significantly, to the extent that (according to a report yesterday) President Obama wouldn't have won if the election was yesterday.

As far as "anywhere but the south"...again, you are projecting last years wildly successful (if deceptive) "vote against Bush" strategy, that is highly unlikely to have ANY success a year from now. The reverse (anti-Obama sentiment) is more likely in 2010, although anything can happen. It is perhaps more accurate to say that it isn't so much 'just the south' as 'not the northeast.' When you've got a Republican party that nominates a liberal like Dede, that speaks to the makeup of that electorate.

Another note--I believe the OP mentioned something about Maine and being a loss for Conservatives? From what I read the Pro-Gay Marriage law was thrown out by voters, which would generally be considered a Conservative Win--even in the Northeast, which surprises me.

Back to the subject here. Conservatives really need to think about thisi whole issue. Are they willing to vote for a name (Republican) that means nothing, if their Republicans vote for 90% of Democrat issues? That is a strategy of surrender in terms of principle, and it is a wildly pragmatic stance--a concentrated "lesser of two evils" argument.

No, I think people should stick to their principles and teach others why they believe what they do, but without totally shooting themselves in the foot. When your candidate is 90/10 against you, you don't "go along" but when it is 20/80...well, then you probably do.

KAM

pogeypetey

And what about Maine...

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Micael

It's about values, Bujin. Not numbers or "purity".

And I didn't know New Jersey was in the "south".

Your last statement is just plain wrong. Where have you been? Maybe you meant to say "moderates"?

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Bujin

If you drum out, dismiss, or label as RINO's / liberals any people who deviate from your vary narrow set of "values" (i.e. Powell, Snowe, McCain), then it is indeed about purity. To-may-to, To-mah-to.

For the record, I've stated many times that if the Republicans can decide on a set of values, they will be very successful. They currently have two distinct sets of values: fiscal conservatism and evangelical social conservatism. If they could stick to the former and jettison the latter, they will likely not turn off so many libertarians and those who are fiscally conservative but not hung up on the social issues.

The party needs to realize that not every fiscally conservative person is a religious ideologue. There should be room for those who (for example) are pro-abortion and pro-gay marriage in the Republican Party. That's not a matter of core fiscal values, but rather of ideological purity. And that turns independents off.

According to politifact:

September '09 Gallup Poll:

So folks may have a leaning toward one way if pushed, but those not identifying with a party does indeed outnumber those identifying with the party...despite your statement of my being "just plain wrong". Stating something with certainty doesn't actually make it correct. I accept your apology in advance.

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groovy

Yes, what about Maine? OP's post seems a little confusing there.

groovy

On another note, while the New York race was a technical defeat, people are ignoring the fact that the Conservative Party of New York got 45% of the vote! Not enough to win but certainly enough to make a statement to Republican party leadership (at least in the North East): stop thumbing your nose at party conservatives and expecting them to follow along.

semprini

The Conservative Party candidate campaigned for a short period of time and with very little money.

I agree with your conclusion: he may not have won, but his 45% got the attention of both major parties, I guarantee.

Bujin

This is a highly conservative district (in the hands of Republicans since the 1800's), and had national attention (including endorsements by anyone who is someone in the party), and they still lost. I think it's a bigger message that even a high profile conservative candidate will turn off enough voters to cost elections.

If they can't win in a conservative district like this one, their prospects in less highly-publicized elections will likely be even worse.

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bclinger

Nah. Goes to show what can be done on the short run and what potentially can be done in the long run. Collin Powell's choice of a Republican candidate has little interest for me. Conservative principals are what this country is made of and that was demonstrated yesterday.

ryleyinstl

Another step backward, that's what. Why this nation feels it has the right to push it's version of democracy on other countries but yet still isn't treating all of it's own citizens fairly is beyond me.

Bujin

...by the conservative candidate losing?

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groovy

You mean the House Minority Leader, the Minority Whip, the NRCC chairman? All not only endorsed Scozzafava but contributed to her campaign. She also got the support of Newt Gingrich and the NRA.

Also, the 23rd is only moderately conservative, and even then only as compared to the lower districts. It's seat has been held by moderate Republicans, Democrats and flip-floppers. To say it is "highly Conservative" is just wrong.

ndz

Everything is going as planned. Back, forth, back, forth, yet it is all the same.

Google "Left Right Paradigm" and take the red pill folks.

groovy

And same-sex marriage in Germany? For that matter, in more than 85% of the EU? It doesn't exist.

ryleyinstl

Once the USA gets off it's perceived Christian high horse things will change....like it has in other nations:

Belgium
Canada
Netherlands
Norway
South Africa
Spain
Sweden