Developer describes dealings with Palm as "Kafka-esque", needs to get over himself - Page 2

jp99 · 09/29/2009, 01:46 PM

So leave it a homebrew app and let people get it from Filecoaster or Preware. What's the big deal? If it's free, who cares if it's in the official Palm app store or Homebrew?

tjd414 · 09/29/2009, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp99

So leave it a homebrew app and let people get it from Filecoaster or Preware. What's the big deal? If it's free, who cares if it's in the official Palm app store or Homebrew?

An interesting note on this program (Tip Calculator) ... I have tried deleting it. And guess what ... you can't. At least I can't and I've tried about a dozen times. It will not let you delete it.

Maybe that was the issue ...

ungenius · 09/29/2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZATZAi

I would guess Palm wants to use verified PayPal accounts for the *official* app store for security reasons. To ensure each developer is a real and different person and be able to get in touch with them if need be down the line. Something a little more secure and less anonymous than the "Click here if you're over 18" buttons on a **** site! ;-p

I can understand not wanting to have to pay $100 a year. But in a sense that's a distribution fee for Palm to disitribute your app in their catalog. Palm is embracing homebrew and there are lots of homebrew catalogs people can use at no cost.

its 99$/year to develop for the apple app store as well whether you charge money for your apps or not.

and the only way the person can pay the pay the 99$ is through paypal.. and they don't want to charge a non verified paypal address and end up getting screwed over.

i don't get how none of the people responding to this guys blog can't get that.. or even how he can't get that.. he seems to be wanted to be treated as some special and unique case because he just apparently "does not want to sell programs ever" and palm should just magically take his word for it and put something special in place just for him?

Dieter Bohn · 09/29/2009, 03:16 PM

threads merged

sacherjj · 09/29/2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjd414

An interesting note on this program (Tip Calculator) ... I have tried deleting it. And guess what ... you can't. At least I can't and I've tried about a dozen times. It will not let you delete it.

Maybe that was the issue ...

It couldn't be, as his apps are complete and perfect.

wynand32 · 09/29/2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieter Bohn

threads merged

Yes, and the merge process made a thread that's more Kafka-esque than Palm's app approval process!

StormD · 09/29/2009, 05:18 PM

jwz has been making all kinds of noise on the web for more years than most people have even been on the web. I remember his developer blog back when he worked at Netscape back before they called them blogs, and he was the same way. He's just one of those incredibly stupid ideological geniuses who will rail against everything that isn't exactly the way they think it should be and occasionally make a coherent point or two, and every once in a while happen upon a moment of brilliance, or write some code that was worth a couple million dollars, but usually just sounds like a crackpot. He hasn't changed much since 1994.

jhoff80 · 09/29/2009, 07:23 PM

This sums up everything:

Twitter / Jamie Zawinski: @bgalbs no, I have no inte ...

Palm reaches out to him personally with a phone number to contact them directly, and the guy can't be bothered- he'd rather just whine.

"@bgalbs no, I have no interest in wasting my time talking on the phone over this. just post my apps already. what more is there to say?"

ShadowGod · 09/29/2009, 07:29 PM

He's a huge ********. It's ridiculous that Palm is even acknowledging his existence.

reininop · 09/29/2009, 07:48 PM

I agree with his complaint, but not with the way he handled it. There probably should be some leniency for free programs this early in the app catalog just so it is more competitive with the other app catalogs that exist.
Having said that, homebrew works just fine with me and is probably 85% of the current programs i have on my phone. I'm not sure what his need is to release them on the official app store unless the limited market of homebrew geeks isn't big enough for him.

ssrjazz · 09/29/2009, 07:52 PM

Said dev is a known whiny arsehat. What is new about it? Don't feed the troll attention and he'll go away.

garavin · 09/30/2009, 01:15 AM

Right. Basic arithmetic doesn't warrant an app, paid or free. You can do the same thing JWZ's app does in your head; round up, take 10% of the figure, then add half again for 15% or double it for 20%. I can figure a tip on the fly faster than I can enter the digits into a calculator app anyway, so why bother, especially with a prima donna?

I've met my share of developers who feel the need to compensate for their fragile egos with lots of sturm und drang. They're entitled to their opinions, but people like JWZ don't do themselves any favors by letting the rest of us see just how their genius as coders has rendered them emotionally stunted. Really dude, get over yourself.

Open sourcers seem to live in this fantasy world where there are no costs of doing business. Why, if everyone just worked for free we could all afford everything! Well sorry, but the Marxist-Leninist Utopia is as much a fantasy now as it was a century ago.

TANSTAAFL, pal. Get off your high horse and stop whining. It's Palm's game and their rules. If you don't like it, take your freeware ball and go home.

Most often the value of a thing is pretty closely related to what people are willing to pay for it. Well, in this case, you definitely get your money's worth. As far as I'm concerned, JWZ's Free = Worthless.

Xyg · 09/30/2009, 01:19 AM

^^ Best response yet.

garavin · 09/30/2009, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZATZAi

I can understand not wanting to have to pay $100 a year. But in a sense that's a distribution fee for Palm to disitribute your app in their catalog. Palm is embracing homebrew and there are lots of homebrew catalogs people can use at no cost.

Exactly. Even with a free app there are costs to Palm that need to be recouped. The developer may be fine with giving away his labor, but Palm is rightfully concerned with making a profit, as any competent business should be. Besides that, the beta dev fee is only $5/yr. That's a pittance and not worth arguing over unless you're an intractable *****.

I'm really not sure what this guy's problem is with charging for his app. At $0.99 he'd recoup his developer's fee in a few minutes. Even at the full $100 fee all he'd have to sell is 130 copies or so to get back his money. For someone with his obvious talents that shouldn't present any problem at all.

garavin · 09/30/2009, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormD

He's just one of those incredibly stupid ideological geniuses who will rail against everything that isn't exactly the way they think it should be...

Sort of like Ted Kazynski, except (apparently) without the mail bombs.

sivan · 09/30/2009, 02:29 AM

It's a bit overblown but I agree that app stores in general are not a good development.

We're seeing small controversies like this now, but as the devices start taking on more and more responsibilities, the app store model won't scale. Can you imagine where we would be today if all computer software came from a vendor app store?

bruba · 09/30/2009, 03:17 AM

It's funny. The guy acts like he brought God himself to the Pre. It's a freakin tip calculator. 15 minutes of programming. 2 minutes if he made it before on another platform.

There are several other tip calculators in the app catalog anyway.

"I don't wannaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!"

kbritt31 · 09/30/2009, 04:50 AM

what's/who's kafka?

StormD · 09/30/2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sivan

It's a bit overblown but I agree that app stores in general are not a good development.

We're seeing small controversies like this now, but as the devices start taking on more and more responsibilities, the app store model won't scale. Can you imagine where we would be today if all computer software came from a vendor app store?

I disagree, app stores, are a good development. However, app stores should be a supplement to other methods of installing software, not the only method (as is the case with Apple/Palm). And yes, while it's true you can jailbreak an iphone, or enter DevMode with a Pre, and the latter is not difficult, it's also not trivial, especially for average/non-technical users.

JWZ was absolutely correct when he wrote that side-loading an .ipk should be as simple as clicking a link in the web-browser and then clicking OK on a software load confirmation screen. This is how RIM does it, BTW, and they still manage to have BlackBerry AppWorld, but it also allows competing app retailers (like the one at Crackberry.com) to develop, and even allows them to do things like offer sales, run specials, give away apps as prizes, and other interesting things that are happening in the BB software market.

But having an on-device "oh here's a good place to get cool programs" is a good gateway to help people get the most out of their phones. The App Catalog is a great go-to resource for users to browse to see what's available and for Palm to showcase the best of what the platform has to offer, and easy OTA installs (that don't require complicated rituals involving plugging the phone into the computer ever) allows users to install other apps they might come across "at their own risk". There's really no reason you can't enjoy the fruits of both systems.

(incoming terribleness)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbritt31

what's/who's kafka?

Why would you bug us with such a question?

milominderbinder · 09/30/2009, 11:08 AM

For anyone interested here is when the Tip Calculator was in the early Homebrew:

http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...1-0-5-nrr.html

Since he would not fix his app, PreGame did:

http://forums.precentral.net/homebre...ml#post1727535

Here is what Jamie Zawinski aka jwz states on his webpage:

"By default, it only does whole numbers, because if you insist that your tip be accurate to the penny you are a cheapskate weirdo. Here in the Colonies, we use paper money, not coins. If your bill is $44.22, just enter $45. Don't go all Scrooge McAsperger's on us, ok? But, there is a "scrooge mode" that lets you calculate your tips so that no penny is left behind, if is how you roll."

It is in fact available right now through Preware.

Go figure...or not.

- Craig