Conversation with Jeff Hawkins

Dieter Bohn · 05/31/2007, 12:03 PM

http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1224-1.htm

I'm not a convert to the Foleo camp yet, but dang if I haven't invited the nice man with a tie at the door in for some coffee while he tells me about his religion.

Tastypeppers · 05/31/2007, 12:24 PM

This article, Septimus. There are some problems with it. Stop with this balanced and mature perspective stuff already.

I hope you're right and that this is the opening move in the development of a new line of products. I hope that Palm lives long enough to reap the rewards of the seeds that they are sowing with the Foleo.

I'm their target audience. Maybe when I touch one I'll have gadget lust.

Oops. I broke my Pledge.

samkim · 05/31/2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by septimus

http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1224-1.htm

I'm not a convert to the Foleo camp yet, but dang if I haven't invited the nice man with a tie at the door in for some coffee while he tells me about his religion.

Well done.

miradu · 05/31/2007, 12:57 PM

Fantastic Article Dieter. Congratulations on getting to interview Mr. Hawkins!

Gas Man · 05/31/2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miradu

Fantastic Article Dieter. Congratulations on getting to interview Mr. Hawkins!

I thought that this device was to woo the world!!! Apple should have kept their Newton but maybe the iphone is the rebirth of the "Newton" in smaller format. And our Treo's still do not work as advertised!!!

Rome · 05/31/2007, 01:03 PM

Another well-written piece. Excellent job!

Bob-C · 05/31/2007, 01:10 PM

I thought it a pretty well balanced piece. The Foleo is interesting - but ONLY as a prototype device. It has to include a lot more than what it does now. This thing is definitely not ready for primetime.

mas90guru · 05/31/2007, 01:13 PM

So who is the target market for the Foleo? In a word, executives. Hawkins said he has received a lot a positive responses from executives at the conference. "They said, 'This is exactly what I've been wanting.'"

Actually three words ---- Executives Without Laptops.

Signed,

Still Unconvinced

McTreo · 05/31/2007, 01:14 PM

Let's keep in mind that when Palm launched each of their product lines, they weren't terribly well received. Many thought the original Pilot was ridiculous. However, a critical mass of early adopters (you know, the tech-savvy Treo-central types) made it worth while for developers to spend time writing apps for the new platform. Ah, now the Pilot is beginning to look pretty cool.

How many of you ran out to buy the Spring-board cell phone adapter? ...not many. But once the integrated Treo came along, it has been widely and correctly hailed as the best smart-phone on the market.

Don't get me wrong. I, too, was disappointed by yesterday's announcement, but consider a couple of points:

1. The Foleo is a ver 1.0 product. It is the original PP with no 3rd party apps.

2. The target market for the Foleo is not the tech-savvy early adopters. Rather, it is the Executive. (strike 1?)

3. To achieve its potential, the Foleo will need third Party and/or Palm development, which in turn will require a critical mass of users. (In the absence of critical mass, and third-party development, Palm will need to step up, eating into development resources. Strike 2?)

We, the Palm enlightened, are not helping by dogging this thing to death before it is even released.

Please put on your visionary glasses and imagine what the Foleo could be before you beat it to death. Reserve judgement, folks. We may very well look back a few years from now and see what a great niche the Foleo fills, that we didn't know existed.

For the record: I do not work for Palm. I am, like most of you, a Palm/Treo fan. I went on record with my predictions as to what I thought yesterday's announcement would be. Yes, I would much prefer my vision to the Foleo at this point. But, I have an open mind and a modicum of faith left in Palm. At this point I am not going to run out and buy a Foleo when it comes out. But, I am willing to wait and see what the Foleo evolves into.

Just my two cents.

Mac

mas90guru · 05/31/2007, 01:15 PM

Would be interested in the answer to this question:

Where will you succeed where umpteen billion other competitors with "looks like a laptop, priced like a laptop but isn't a laptop" have failed?

My impression was also that the expectations were that the Foleo would be a MAJOR third line of business and not some pet R&D project.

tirk · 05/31/2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mas90guru

So who is the target market for the Foleo? In a word, executives. Hawkins said he has received a lot a positive responses from executives at the conference. "They said, 'This is exactly what I've been wanting.'"

Actually three words ---- Executives Without Laptops.

Even them? They're a notoriously concerned about image and as far as I can see a Foleo screams "I can't use or afford a proper laptop". They'll see it as cheap, when bizarrely it isn't!

And now we discover it has a different power adapter from existing Treos, even though it uses a recycled Treo battery, so you have to carry yet another power brick. Nice R&D there, not.

Haggar · 05/31/2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mas90guru

Would be interested in the answer to this question:

Where will you succeed where umpteen billion other competitors with "looks like a laptop, priced like a laptop but isn't a laptop" have failed?

My impression was also that the expectations were that the Foleo would be a MAJOR third line of business and not some pet R&D project.

Along these lines...I guess I'm bitter and jaded about this device because I was in the PC industry when Windows CE was first hitting the market and personally felt the lead attached to my commission check. The manufacturer I worked for had some incredible CE clamshell devices and I was initially as excited as Hawk seems to be about the potential for this "class" of product.

But then cold, hard reality set in and our customers complained about how CE just didn't have the capabilities that a full laptop had. CE was relatively instant-on, could browse the web, and could get e-mail. But people wanted much more.

Our devices sold for $700-$900. But a "small" 7lb laptop was still in the $3000 area. Our customers still told us that the price delta vs performance just didn't make sense.

I think this kind of thinking looks great on paper...and has some wonderful applications in your imagination...but when the real world hits you and need to actually PERFORM...this device will leave you wanting too many times.

The only way I see this device becoming appealing to most buyers is if it can do video, audio, and run robust applications. But once this thing does that, how is it NOT a laptop or laptop replacement?

It sounds to me like he's suggesting that your Treo will essentially become your communicator and your hard drive. The Foleo would be the dumb terminal with some internal processing power to make things a little nicer but it would still rely on your Treo to actually apply the work you do on the Foleo to the real world. If that's the case and you need both a Treo and a Foleo, the price point and usibility curve become way too confusing for anyone to say it's a great idea...

cadams · 05/31/2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mas90guru

Would be interested in the answer to this question:

Where will you succeed where umpteen billion other competitors with "looks like a laptop, priced like a laptop but isn't a laptop" have failed?

My impression was also that the expectations were that the Foleo would be a MAJOR third line of business and not some pet R&D project.

This is my stance as well. The power and mobility of the WinCE devices were transfered over to smartphones and laptops kept getting smaller and lighter. Those two things killed that market and now Palm thinks they can bring it back?

chadman · 05/31/2007, 01:38 PM

Great article. I agree with some of the other sentiments here that bashing this device does not help our (my) favorite company. The pilot and Treo devices have revolutionized that way I work. I think there is a market for this device, but the price point is too high.

Going forward, many of us have laptops as our main PC's. Having an alternative instant-on device sounds very lucrative to me. It is not my "main PC" but it gives me the functions I would need when away from my desk such as email, web, documents.

Again, for me the only downside is the price, and who knows that may change by launch time. As Dieter said, I think I have gadget lust, but I can also see the practicality as well. I think I may be in the minority on this one.

mas90guru · 05/31/2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggar

It sounds to me like he's suggesting that your Treo will essentially become your communicator and your hard drive. The Foleo would be the dumb terminal with some internal processing power to make things a little nicer but it would still rely on your Treo to actually apply the work you do on the Foleo to the real world. If that's the case and you need both a Treo and a Foleo, the price point and usibility curve become way too confusing for anyone to say it's a great idea...

Almost.

I think what the want is to have most of your data stored off-line.

Think about it- who wants to store their data on a phone they might leave on a bus. No matter how well encrypted the data is - nobody but the most foolish will buy into that. Corporate America sure as hell won't buy that concept.

Nope. The piece that was missing from yesterday's show was applications. And not hokey PDA type stuff. Throw in some applications that work both online via the web and offline. Add in offline storage that synchs automatically with your device. Then you have something to be more excited about.

My feeling still is that Palm missed an 11th hour bundling agreement with someone like Google (think Google apps) and still had to carry forward with the lame *** demonstration and fake enthusiasm.

Stig · 05/31/2007, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mas90guru

I think what the want is to have most of your data stored off-line.

The piece that was missing from yesterday's show was applications. And not hokey PDA type stuff. Throw in some applications that work both online via the web and offline. Add in offline storage that synchs automatically with your device. Then you have something to be more excited about.

My thoughts exactly. What made the Blackberry a success was not 'just another smartphone' but the middleware that got your email to you instantly.

I think from Hawkins' comment about a 'ton of data' that we will see some kind of online data storage which you access via the Foleo. So, you can access all your data, all the time.

SPG · 05/31/2007, 02:49 PM

I had and maybe have great hopes, but:

1. Make it a tablet or convertable with a touch screen.
2. Make able to use Open Office.
3. Make it able to become another drive on my desktop computer.
4. Make it able to Sync with my desktop computer.
5. Keep it able to turn on quickly.
6. Not that Icare, but make it able to play vedio.

SPG

PSB22 · 05/31/2007, 02:54 PM

I'm somewhat pleased with his overall attitude towards this device as a stepping stone... clearly if Palm survives the next 6 months (or even 3), then this could be the start of something big. The real question is in the "IF".

A few thoughts on the future Foleos...
1) Maybe make the form-factor closer to the Treo, or make the 2 integrated (maybe the treo could slot in/out of the Foleo, be charged from it etc).

2) MEMORY memory memory. Even with off-line storage, you need a few GB of disk or flash just to download decent sized attachments these days. I LOVE the idea of maybe a Palm data server, wherein you automatically get 1TB of space on-line when you buy a Foleo, and it is automatically linked (no log-in required).

3) TOUCH SCREEN - please please , don't you see that the way to save space and still have a full size keyboard is to make a better touch screen keyboard. Is it really that difficult to put piezo-electric motors underneath a touch screen so the virtual "keys" provide mechanical feedback?

4) Flexibility - and by this I mean physical flexibility. There are a lot of new LED and LCD technologies out there, permitting flexible screens. Sure I want a big screen, but you guuys must be able to figure out some sort of folding/rolling screen by now? Does the size of the device really have to be bigger than the whole screen? If the screen at least folded in 2 that would make the form factor more pocket friendly.

Just some thoughts. Not happy with the current incarnation but excited about possible future such devices.

gadgetluva · 05/31/2007, 03:02 PM

I want something that will replace my portable video player that can also do things on the web such as browsing, and maybe a little bit of MS Office stuff. I think I found my answer with the Samsung Q1 Ultra UMPC that should be out in June sometime. The base model is $799, which is $300 more than the Foleo, but it offers so much more power than the Foleo such as having full Vista, a 60gb HDD, 1gb RAM, etc. I think that the base model will suit my needs (I'll turn off the fancy things in Vista Premium that I won't need and that suck away resources). I have a work laptop, but I never use it while at home (unless I'm working that is) and I've been thinking about getting a laptop for home use (I also have a desktop) and for when I travel. I'm waiting for the price tag to come down closer to the magical $500 mark, but I'm hoping that'll happen soon.

LoneWolf15 · 05/31/2007, 03:11 PM

(quoting myself from another thread, but it made sense here):

This product looks like it is marketed at certain middle to upper management types, and CEO's. The type that IT dept. staff know can hardly compute their way out of a paper bag, but still need access to the web, e-mail, contacts, and tasks, and want to "look cool" by appearing to have mastered at least one technical gizmo. This is the type that the IT department gives a Blackberry or a Motorola Q to because they can't do too much damage with it (or to it).
The IT dept would rather not support a full computer for someone who has to be bailed out often when using one, and the user has a fairly fixed set of needs (though their perceived needs admittedly may exceed this). So this may be the niche that product is supposed to fill.

Whether the device can actually do that well is another question entirely. It's definitely not for power users. That alone may be an issue -many people in the above category don't like to be seen as not being a power user, even if they'll never be one.